1,470 likes. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Phone number 1 800. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. We'll push great photos to the front page. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. We had six copies printed out each. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Women control our lives. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Caller: Oh yeah. They sent it already. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Peter Biello: Ok. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. You saw what you saw. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. So what a neat experience. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Seems reasonable! Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Early in the morning. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. 1957. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Right. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. Does not test random Scouts. No doubt in my mind it was. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Select image for larger view. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Part II. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Tell us your story. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? So there's even debate about that very subject. These were normal everyday folks. That's too big for Bobcat. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. Is that typically what was happening there. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Theres tracks everywhere. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. Chartered: 1973 . On a dirt road. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. Something along those lines. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Caller: Are probably. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. I mean they're a survivor. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. for some excitement. I can't. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Caller: I do. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. And you know all that. There are corollaries in other states. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Caller: I have yeah. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Let's look for other evidence. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. They're just moving around freely. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. John you're on the air. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. So Michael follows with the question. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: Yes. There's no attraction. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. I don't know if she still is. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. 44-H Links. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Administrative Links. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. So now what's going on. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. So. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. 44-N Links. Can you look into this picture. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. About Lions. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat.
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