Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Seems a bit apologetic to me. He probably had a double until it was over. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Canadian soldier. The problem was strikers. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Wheee!!. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. Legal Penalties. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Too Many Accidents Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. But Shatner? So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. Theyre the only product that is not. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. It did not originally have this. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. Theres a couple of possibilities. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. Look a fanboy. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Folks disagree on brands. They admitted their problem and fixed it. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. The Hide Armory. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Really? 3. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Im more of a DS9 guy. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. They function as commanded every time. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. ALL OF THEM. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. But now, P320 is the subject. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. LOL! I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Would you? Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. . This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. The new guy sucks. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. BAM. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Fair enough. Great job, this threat needed some levity! They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Asking for a friend. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Weird how that might happen. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. there is no better. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. . Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. He was told to shoot two rounds. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. No, it doesnt. I have no idea. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. That focus drifts. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. congrats. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. You couldnt ask questions. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. There was no holster involved. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Ron, The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. Liberal, Conservative. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. One hell of a conspiracy. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Fine. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Mine is very accurate. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons.
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